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Thread: Patch Updates

  1. #1
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Patch Updates

    Ok, so I have been dealing this for awhile now. With every single game I have for my PS3 and I know with NTG 2011 I will deal with the same thing.

    When a patch is released, your PS3 must be connected to the internet. Makes sense, the patch has to be downloaded to the PS3 somehow.

    But what about those whose internet cannot be connected to the PS3? Every game I have has yet to be updated for some time now because of this. I have to take my PS3 and games to my buddys house to update.

    It would not be so bad, except games are rushed to be released and then patched later.

    There has got to be a way for developers to allow downloading the patch on the PC and transfering via USB to the PS3. You can do that to update the system itself, why not the games?

    For NTG 2011, I want to be able to do this with its patch for obvious reasons. Otherwise, I'm stuck making a time with my buddy to update my PS3 and games.

    What do you all think about this? And does anyone have any idea why no developer has done this whole PC download thing? Limitations of the PS3? Maybe for piracy reasons?

    I know NTG 2011 will be a finished product when its released, but would still be nice to be able to update it.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  2. #2
    Test Driver Thorsfew's Avatar
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    I think the biggest issue for you will be, not the "patch" but the fact you will not be able to race on line.
    Lucky for you the game will feature the 2010 season and a great single player game.
    If you wish for 2011 patch, then you friends it is, but while there I suggest you make time for a on line race or two.
    Most consoles these days are sold to customers that have on line access, so it's not the developers at issue here.

    I feel for you not having access to the INTERNET, but when you purchased the console, you knew the limitations.
    Do you visit forums from your friends or do you have Internet at home?
    If you have Internet at home maybe you could look at a monthly subscription to include your console?

  3. #3
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Isn't something like only 20% of PS3 consoles are not connected to the internet? So I can see that.

    I do have internet at home, but where I live, the internet options are limited. Currently, I have Verizon Wireless internet access which cannot connect through the PS3. Even if it could, it'd be a bad idea since there is a 5 Gb cap. My only other option is Satelitte, which sucks for online gaming and costs a lot. Then again, so does this verizon crap.

    Unless its a FPS, not much of an online gamer, call me old school I guess, haha.

    It does look like my friends is the only option, which is no surprise really.

    I guess my biggest curiosity is why a PC<->USB patch has not been thought of? Again, lack of non-connected PS3s?

    I suppose I'm just a frustrated gamer who unfortunately can't update his games unless I take my PS3 to a buddies house.
    And your right, I did know the limitations when I purchased the console. So its not a huge deal, since I do have an option for updating. If I didn't have that option, I'd scream, haha.

    Either way, this game is gonna be great.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  4. #4
    u wot m8?

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    Well I am new to PS3 so what would be a better way to avoid 'Taking the whole console to your friend' is I think maybe to remove hard disc and plug it into your friends PS3 (If he has one) then download the update. I don't think that's the best option though...since your friend I believe doesn't have his own PS3. :/

    Other than that, I really hope Eutechnyx and other gaming studios do come up with a proper solution for guys like you that doesn't have connection. I think USB is great option, but really seems like most of the gaming studios ignore this idea, maybe because of evil things some hackers could do with the files? I am not sure.

  5. #5
    Fan Wheeltax's Avatar
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    I don't think you can just switch hard drives like that, either. I might be wrong.

  6. #6
    u wot m8?

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    I don't either but I'm just guessing.

  7. #7
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    No, swapping out the HDD won't work unfortunately. Even though Sony has made it possible to swap out HDDs with other 2.5" SATA laptop drives, once you plug it into another console thats not yours, the PS3 wants to format it. Its an anti-piracy feature.

    USB would be a great option especially since thumbdrive technology has become much cheaper and storage sizes have increased.

    Whats got me especially intrigued with this idea is that I can download the PS3 system update via playstation.com and put it on a thumbdrive to update the system that way. So I'm thinking since thats possible, it should be possible to do that with games. And that its up to the developers to do so.

    I doubt this is something developers would even consider doing, but it was a good thought, I believe.

    I know Eutechnyx can't do this with NTG 2011 since its to close to release and probably about ready to go gold. But maybe that could add this in with a patch update? Releasing a patch update thats done in-game to allow USB patching would be funny as hell.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  8. #8
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    Hmm, I'm not a PS3 owner but I'm just going to make a comment that Eutechnyx should seriously consider doing this, why not be the first in the field to do this? The only downside I can think really is... =\ Erm...

    Right... About that.. =\... On a really serious note, this seems like a good way to counter and attack the market, I give this a vote to be done..
    "What I say, is there to stay, a true man holds to his words and owns up to his mistakes"

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    Taking a PS3 to a friends house is not that much of an inconvenience I don't think, especially if it's the slim. Those things are small and portable.

    If the patch includes what I was told it might include then it's gonna be a pretty HUGE file and you're probably not gonna wanna download it with your 5 gb capped Verizon internet.
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  10. #10
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabaGahNush View Post
    Taking a PS3 to a friends house is not that much of an inconvenience I don't think, especially if it's the slim. Those things are small and portable.

    If the patch includes what I was told it might include then it's gonna be a pretty HUGE file and you're probably not gonna wanna download it with your 5 gb capped Verizon internet.
    Its not the slim PS3, good ol fashion fat one, haha. I've recently moved and I live about an hour away from my buddy. So the inconvience for me personally is slightly higher than most. And the fact that work pretty mush dominates my life. Of course, this is in no way any fault of the developers.

    I was thinking about the size of patch updates, as well. Most are quite large. The only way I would see a fix for this concern is the possibility of breaking the PC<->USB version of the patch up into chunks. Whether thats feasible or not, I don't know.

    It would be cool to get Dave in here to get the perspective of a development company on this idea.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  11. #11
    Spotter BabaGahNush's Avatar
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    I would also think that they wouldn't be allowed by either Sony or Microsoft to do this because all patches have to be certified by Sony and Microsoft before they're sent to the consoles via the internet. It almost seems that releasing game patches any other way might invite hackers to tamper with the patch. That's my thought anyway.
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  12. #12
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Thats a possibility, as well. Especially with Sony really cracking down on hacking. I can't say that I blame Sony for doing so.

    So maybe its not so much that its not possible, but more along the lines of Sony allowing this type of patch update. If thats the case, it should be something Sony should allow since you can perform system updates this way.
    Again though, it could be that system updates and patch updates are handled differently, which is probably the case.

    I'm starting to think that from a developer stand point and from Sony's viewpoint of the cons are out weighing the pros.

    From my viewpoint, well we all know where I stand on that, lol.

    TBH, I'm just happy that paint schemes are mostly limited to imagination and not really limitations of the software. And that damage is finally done in a way that I and many others wanted many many years ago.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeltax View Post
    I don't think you can just switch hard drives like that, either. I might be wrong.
    via usb you can get the game save data

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  14. #14
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    u wot m8?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bballshawn24 View Post
    via usb you can get the game save data
    That's old, but it's all about the updates.

  16. #16
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    Probably to stop people making their own patches for games. Imagine the havok if you could remove all the anti-cheating features, or give yourself a faster car, with a modded game. PC games just have to be written to content with such possibilities, but this restriction likely saves a lot of headaches.

  17. #17
    Driver bballshawn24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
    Probably to stop people making their own patches for games. Imagine the havok if you could remove all the anti-cheating features, or give yourself a faster car, with a modded game. PC games just have to be written to content with such possibilities, but this restriction likely saves a lot of headaches.
    exactly what i expected

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    Spotter MegaMan4562's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeltax View Post
    I don't think you can just switch hard drives like that, either. I might be wrong.
    It is possible, but you have to be REALLY careful. Oone wrong move and bye bye PS3!
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  19. #19
    Fan Matthew Carriveau's Avatar
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    Why just not get a modem and a wireless router or a modem/wireless router all in one?

  20. #20
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutchuck View Post
    If your wireless (Verizon) access is through your laptop via an air card/USB you can share (bridge) the laptop's LAN connection port.

    Go to your Network Connections setting page (where it lists your network adapter(s) used and unused). First change the properties of the active adapter (wireless in your case); go to the properties Sharing tab. You can change your wireless adapter to share by "Allowing other network users to connect through this computer's Internet connection". Click OK. It may help to restart.

    Then, bridge the connections:
    [...]

    You will have the have your laptop running on AC to enable the LAN connection. This is how some people access the internet without a router and one modem, but multiple adapters. The game is run off the console, not off the computer. The computer acts as a router. Some myth this as cheating, but they're obviously not savy of how consoles and computers interact.

    EDIT: I believe the download should not exceed you limit (this month). I'm glad it's a download to the console, as it should be!!
    I was wondering when someone was going to suggest bridging the connections. Unfortunately, I thought about that long ago and look into extensively. Windows treats VZAccess as a dial up connection. Even though its a broadband connection, its more like DSL and still must dial into the network.
    Bridging dial connection to LAN networks its not quite as simple as bridging 2 LAN networks and requires some work arounds.

    I wouldn't be to sure about the patch not exceeding 5 Gbs. Although most patch updates I've downloaded in the past usually weren't more than 1 gig, one patch update I think was like 7 Gbs. Don't remember which game, but it was one of the AAA titles I have.

    As with what Bob said about downloading the patch off the PC and then uploading it to the PS3. I see what he is saying. There is a huge risk for people making their own patch and there is enough issues with people cheating already.

    However, I think I might have thought of a fix for that. The developers of the game could implement a check system in the original game for patch updates. What would happen is, when a patch is released, it would call this "check" api to verify its an official patch. Each developer could implement its own check system.
    Even going so far that the API on the original game doesn't even know what the official patch check is until the patch is released.
    Then again, there is still the risk that someone could find a way around it.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  21. #21
    Fan Chipunk's Avatar
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    Typically I would not create another post directly under another I did, however, the time between the two is distant.

    Anyways,
    With regards to my original subject and the release day patch. I am a bit concerned. Although I am not sticking to thought until I pop NTG 2011 into my PS3 and see what happens.

    There is this subject going around about NTG 2011 freezing when saving a car from the paint booth.
    Most would say not a huge deal it'll be fixed in a patch.

    Now this is really cool that games these days can be patched rather than in the old days that you what you bought is what you got.
    Now with my issue, I still kinda in the same boat.
    Of course, we've already discussed that I do have options. However, there are many out there who do not.

    Now, instead of saying, "So Eutechnyx, what are you gonna do for these people?" That just sounds terrible towards a company who honestly have made an awesome game and are trying so hard to give us Nascar game we have been dreaming for.
    What I am going to is offer suggestions, of course.

    We have already determined that downloading a patch from the PC is to much of a risk of cheating and creation of unofficial patches.

    But wait! What about a disc that users who are desperate for patches can buy for say... $5?
    Of course, the user is not paying for the patch, they are paying for the disc, shipping and processing, etc.

    $5 to me is cheaper than lugging my PS3 an hour away to my friends house.
    Is this something that would be worth the effort to Eutechnyx. And would Sony even allow this?

    Of course, the disc would need to have a few patches and a couple DLCs to make it wourthwhile.
    Life is just one big circle. One giant Talladega sized circle.

  22. #22
    will I be able to still get the day 1 patch if i buy the game about 2 months later

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